Re: OT Sold It!!!!!!!!!!!!

"Miles" <nope@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message 
news:XoqWj.11977$MQ1.7116@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> TBone wrote:
>
>> You seem to think that someone starting should have to work up to a 
>> living wage, not start at one and work up to a comfortable living.
>
> You seem to think a company should pay a high salary to someone who has
no 
> skills and ignore the high costs a company endures to train them.

Why is it that you seen to think that a living wage is a high salary? 
There 
is a big difference between the two.

> Yes TBone, work your way up and quit expecting handouts and something
for 
> nothing.  Hard work earns rewards in life.  It's not given out freely as

> you want.

Once again, nuthin but distortions and bull****.  Who said anything should

be handed out?  What exactly is you definition of rewards?


>> And that's probably another problem because when I was looking for
work, 
>> it seemed that the ones not putting a salary range in job posting
usually 
>> were on the low side.  Not all of the time, but most of it.
>
> Low end jobs post salaries.  High end jobs post no such thing or at most
a 
> possible wide range.  Guess I know what jobs you were looking for!

Then you would be once again, wrong as usual.  I did not say that an exact

salary would or even should be posted but in many cases, a range is
listed.

>
>> IOW, get them in for the lowest cost possible.
>
> lol, nah, pay them as much as possible, way over what they are worth.
Some 
> peoples kids!

Once again, a idiotic right wing responce, how typical.  You should always

get the best deal and anyone but an idiot knows that the best deal does
not 
always mean the lowest price.  I guess that we know where you stand.

>
>> The fact is Miles that there are many people out there but they want or

>> need more than people like you are willing to pay them.
>
> They want and need huh?  There is an economic system where people are
paid 
> based on need.  Why don't you move there?  I prefer one where pay is
based 
> on abilities and not wants and needs.  You want it?  Then learn and work

> for it.

And that is why your company is having the hard time that it is attracting

talent.  I agree on the wants side to a point but needs are what they are 
and if you refuse to meet them, then they cannot come to you for work.

>
>
>> What is your general salary range for the positions you are looking to 
>> fill Miles?
>
> 75K-100K+ for mechanical engineers depending on specific job and skills
an 
> applicant holds.

And how much experience do they require to get hired within this salary 
range?  Would a college grad with lets say a masters and little work 
experience qualify?  How about a BA?

>
>> Either way, Phoenix is a somewhat expensive area to live in and that 
>> climate pulls in a very specific type of person and maybe not the type
of 
>> people that you need
>
> lol, you have no clue about Phoenix!!  The southwest has been steadily
out 
> pacing growth compared to almost all areas of the USA.  Major
cor****ations 
> have all moved here, Banner, Target, Raytheon, Wells Fargo, Motorola and

> many more.

LOL, which is probably why you are having a difficult time finding
employees 
as these companies know what real talent is worth.  That still doesn't 
change the fact that the climate there is not for everyone.  The last time
I 
was there (and it has been a few years) going down some of the streets
made 
me laugh.  They had grass lawns and fruit trees, it looked like a mini 
Florida except for the smog that Florida doesn't have.  And even then
there 
were water issues and I'm sure that it isn't any better now and probably 
worse unless some serious restrictions have been put in place which would 
make it less desirable for many and perhaps more desirable for some.

>> I'll tell you what Miles, if you are uncomfortable listing salary
ranges 
>> here, tell me what kind of lifestyle could a married employee with 2
kids 
>> living in the Phoenix area talking one of these jobs that you are 
>> offering have on the low end of the benefits package you are offering.
>
> They could live quite nice considering the median income in Phoenix is 
> $45,000 and most at my company make over that.  Keep it up TBone with
your 
> assumptions that my company must pay sub par wages.  You're barking up
the 
> wrong tree.

LOL, you are kidding, right!?!?!?!  I doubt very much that you could live 
"quite nice" on $45,000 there.  It is so right wing of you to come up with
a 
deceptive number like the median income when that number is an unweighted 
combination of the richest of the rich and the poorest of the poor.  If
the 
true cost of living well was $45,000 then you should have employees
beating 
down your door to get the jobs you mentioned here as you are offering up
to 
more than twice that amount.  Something tells me that to live a good 
lifestyle in the better areas of Phoenix costs well upwards of $100,000 in

family income.

-- 
If at first you don't succeed,  you're not cut out for skydiving