David Hearn wrote:
> Bob Minchin wrote:
>> David Hearn wrote:
>>> Bob Minchin wrote:
>>>> David Hearn wrote:
>>>>> Tim.. wrote:
>>>>>> "David Hearn" <dave@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:6209p2F20rovqU1@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>>>>> Our Peugeot 306 1.4l petrol, 1998 version has just started (as in
>>>>>>> today) idling quite lumpy once started - such that you feel it's
>>>>>>> going to stall (or at least, can imagine that it might).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's just passed 120,000, so is getting longer in the tooth. Had
>>>>>>> it's MOT done last October and passed emmisions fine. Engine
>>>>>>> wise it's been okay. Slight oil leakage from the head gasket area
>>>>>>> (front left side) pretty much the entire time we've had it (6
>>>>>>> years) - but not enough to cause us to have to top up much
>>>>>>> between oil changes, some tapping from the cam shaft (again,
>>>>>>> pretty much the whole time). No issues though with the running
>>>>>>> of the engine, starts immediately first time every time. Coolant
>>>>>>> has been okay-ish. No noticable mayo - but the coolant has
>>>>>>> always looked a bit rusty between changes, and is probably due
>>>>>>> for a change.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Plugs were changed last year, and we do about 10,000 miles per
>>>>>>> year. Oil change done about 6k miles ago. Earth strap replaced a
>>>>>>> year or so ago when it failed (causing weird electrical issues) -
>>>>>>> but haven't checked this time.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> One other thing, which I wonder may be related, is that recently
>>>>>>> (last couple of weeks) the trip counter has been resetting on its
>>>>>>> own. I reset it each time I fill the tank and so noticed when,
>>>>>>> after half a tank of fuel has been used, it's suddenly reading
>>>>>>> only a couple of miles.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Just now, when the car was very lumpy, it seemed that whenever we
>>>>>>> pulled away from a junction, particuarly when changing up gears,
>>>>>>> it seemed to reset - we saw this happen a few times. Since then
>>>>>>> though, we've done about 15 miles without it resetting, even
>>>>>>> though we've had to stop the engine for a bit, and when
>>>>>>> re-started it was lumpy again. Might be a red-herring - but
>>>>>>> might be helpful. I'm wondering if it's an electrical problem
>>>>>>> (coil pack?) causing the trip counter to reset - which may also
>>>>>>> affect the ignition - but I've got no real idea of *why* it might
>>>>>>> cause it! Just a wild hypothesis.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There's no engine lights or anything else showing.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is a single pointer n'est pas? If so, its waaaay past having
>>>>>> the injector cleaned / replaced.
>>>>>
>>>>> I've no idea whether it's single or multi point. The symptoms
>>>>> appear immediately after starting the engine, even when warm.
>>>>> After driving a couple of miles I don't notice any stuttering in
>>>>> the idling. I tried it at some lights yesterday after driving for
>>>>> a bit, immediately after restarting it was lumpy again.
>>>>>
>>>>> I also noticed yesterday that it has started idling quite fast on
>>>>> occasions - not all the time and went for a bit after stopping and
>>>>> restarting the engine (but got the stuttering/lumpyness again). No
>>>>> idea of the actual RPM as my rev counter has no dial (the speedo
>>>>> motor died a while back and I swapped motors to get a working
>>>>> speedo - cheaper than £400 for a new instrument cluster from
Peugeot).
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Otherwise check the stepper motor and linkage for dryness /
>>>>>> stiffness.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Tim.
>>>>>
>>>>> Where's the stepper motor, and how would I check it? ;)
>>>>>
>>>>> D
>>>> Highly likely to be the Idle control valve/stepper motor sticking. I
>>>> read of these only having 50k miles life. (my 405 ICV is playing up
>>>> at 88k miles)
>>>> Look for an electrically controlled valve with hoses in and out
>>>> effectively bypassing the throttle butterfly. Sometimes these can
>>>> be cleaned with carb cleaner and last a little longer.
>>>> New ones (for my 405) are about £50 from GSF and double that from
Pug.
>>>> Not all ICVs are true stepper motors. Mine is a DC motor with two
>>>> windings (three terminals) which by varying the current in the two
>>>> coils can turn the armature though 90 degrees, enough to operate a
>>>> valve between fully closed and fully open.
>>>>
>>>> hth
>>>>
>>>> Bob
>>>
>>> Well, I think I've found the stepper motor! After searching on eBay
>>> I came up with a similar picture, but not identical. See
>>>
<http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-Peugeot-Idle-valve-stepper-motor-A1678-A1459-B32-00_W0QQitemZ330211820370QQihZ014QQcategoryZ10406QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem>
>>> and/or <http://i7.ebayimg.com/01/i/000/a3/74/f16c_1.JPG>.
I think
>>> the part number is 1920 6W "Regulator MOT" in the parts CD.
>>>
>>> The difference is that the black part of the shaft on my one is about
>>> twice the length.
>>>
>>> The silver tip will rotate/move back and forth a tiny, tiny amount
>>> (more like play than intentional rotation as it's so tiny). The
>>> black bit on the shaft is a spring loaded collar over the inner shaft
>>> which connects to the silver tip. This black collar rotates fine,
>>> although with a little friction - more akin to the friction due to
>>> the end of the spring than anything else.
>>>
>>> Other that that, nothing appears to move. Cannot rotate the tip, and
>>> cannot work out how the collar could drive anything.
>>>
>>> My only conclusion is that this actually moves in and out, rather
>>> than rotates. Hence the lack of rotation of the tip, and a spring
>>> loaded collar around the shaft. Unfortunatately, this probably means
>>> its worm driven, and thus cannot be moved manually (I certainly
>>> couldn't!) - so difficult to be able to check whether it's working
>>> right.
>>>
>>> What would happen if I just wired it back into the car, but didn't
>>> mount it? Should I then expect it to move? What about the fact that
>>> there's a big hole where it used to be? I don't want to spend quite
>>> a bit of money on it if this one is perfectly fine if this one could
>>> be tested somehow.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> David
>>
>> Your ICV is completely different from mine which is shown here and it
>> works differently.
>>
http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n313/9fingersphotos/IdleControlValve.jpg.
>>
>>
>> Find something about the same size as the actuator and use that to
>> control the engine speed manually. If the stepper is working properly,
>> then you should see it smoothly move from one extreme to the other
>> depending of whether the idle speed that your are controlling manually
>> is above or below the set speed.
>> Make sure the engine is not cold when you do thus and that the aircon
>> is off and that the throttle is fully closed. I.e. you must be
>> simulating tickover conditions.
>> Bob
>
> Thanks for the advice - incidentally, any idea whether it's worth
> getting one from eBay? This one has the exact part number of the one
> I've removed:
> <http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230225592876>.
At
> £25 (or maybe a lower offer) + delivery it's probably under 1/2 the
> price they seem to be at Euro Car Parts (not found exact one there, but
> looking at prices of stepper motors for same engine fitted to other
> cars), and apparently Peugeot would be about £110.
>
> So - would you trust getting a part like this from eBay? Or is it
> better to pay the £60+ from a factors, or £100+ from the dealer? ;)
>
> Thanks
>
> D
Vendor says it BN and offers 12 months warranty. Feedback is good.
I searched and found the vendor has accepted £20 for this item in the
past so you should get it delivered for £25 or a bit less if you want to
take the risk of losing it!
I would take the risk but it up to you.
First of all find out if you need one!!
Bob
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