Bob Minchin wrote:
> David Hearn wrote:
>> Bob Minchin wrote:
>>> David Hearn wrote:
>>>> Tim.. wrote:
>>>>> "David Hearn" <dave@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>>>>> news:6209p2F20rovqU1@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>>>> Our Peugeot 306 1.4l petrol, 1998 version has just started (as in
>>>>>> today) idling quite lumpy once started - such that you feel it's
>>>>>> going to stall (or at least, can imagine that it might).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's just passed 120,000, so is getting longer in the tooth. Had
>>>>>> it's MOT done last October and passed emmisions fine. Engine wise
>>>>>> it's been okay. Slight oil leakage from the head gasket area
>>>>>> (front left side) pretty much the entire time we've had it (6
>>>>>> years) - but not enough to cause us to have to top up much between
>>>>>> oil changes, some tapping from the cam shaft (again, pretty much
>>>>>> the whole time). No issues though with the running of the engine,
>>>>>> starts immediately first time every time. Coolant has been
>>>>>> okay-ish. No noticable mayo - but the coolant has always looked a
>>>>>> bit rusty between changes, and is probably due for a change.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Plugs were changed last year, and we do about 10,000 miles per
>>>>>> year. Oil change done about 6k miles ago. Earth strap replaced a
>>>>>> year or so ago when it failed (causing weird electrical issues) -
>>>>>> but haven't checked this time.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> One other thing, which I wonder may be related, is that recently
>>>>>> (last couple of weeks) the trip counter has been resetting on its
>>>>>> own. I reset it each time I fill the tank and so noticed when,
>>>>>> after half a tank of fuel has been used, it's suddenly reading
>>>>>> only a couple of miles.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Just now, when the car was very lumpy, it seemed that whenever we
>>>>>> pulled away from a junction, particuarly when changing up gears,
>>>>>> it seemed to reset - we saw this happen a few times. Since then
>>>>>> though, we've done about 15 miles without it resetting, even
>>>>>> though we've had to stop the engine for a bit, and when re-started
>>>>>> it was lumpy again. Might be a red-herring - but might be
>>>>>> helpful. I'm wondering if it's an electrical problem (coil pack?)
>>>>>> causing the trip counter to reset - which may also affect the
>>>>>> ignition - but I've got no real idea of *why* it might cause it!
>>>>>> Just a wild hypothesis.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There's no engine lights or anything else showing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> This is a single pointer n'est pas? If so, its waaaay past having
>>>>> the injector cleaned / replaced.
>>>>
>>>> I've no idea whether it's single or multi point. The symptoms
>>>> appear immediately after starting the engine, even when warm. After
>>>> driving a couple of miles I don't notice any stuttering in the
>>>> idling. I tried it at some lights yesterday after driving for a
>>>> bit, immediately after restarting it was lumpy again.
>>>>
>>>> I also noticed yesterday that it has started idling quite fast on
>>>> occasions - not all the time and went for a bit after stopping and
>>>> restarting the engine (but got the stuttering/lumpyness again). No
>>>> idea of the actual RPM as my rev counter has no dial (the speedo
>>>> motor died a while back and I swapped motors to get a working speedo
>>>> - cheaper than £400 for a new instrument cluster from Peugeot).
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Otherwise check the stepper motor and linkage for dryness /
stiffness.
>>>>>
>>>>> Tim.
>>>>
>>>> Where's the stepper motor, and how would I check it? ;)
>>>>
>>>> D
>>> Highly likely to be the Idle control valve/stepper motor sticking. I
>>> read of these only having 50k miles life. (my 405 ICV is playing up
>>> at 88k miles)
>>> Look for an electrically controlled valve with hoses in and out
>>> effectively bypassing the throttle butterfly. Sometimes these can be
>>> cleaned with carb cleaner and last a little longer.
>>> New ones (for my 405) are about £50 from GSF and double that from Pug.
>>> Not all ICVs are true stepper motors. Mine is a DC motor with two
>>> windings (three terminals) which by varying the current in the two
>>> coils can turn the armature though 90 degrees, enough to operate a
>>> valve between fully closed and fully open.
>>>
>>> hth
>>>
>>> Bob
>>
>> Well, I think I've found the stepper motor! After searching on eBay I
>> came up with a similar picture, but not identical. See
>>
<http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-Peugeot-Idle-valve-stepper-motor-A1678-A1459-B32-00_W0QQitemZ330211820370QQihZ014QQcategoryZ10406QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem>
>> and/or <http://i7.ebayimg.com/01/i/000/a3/74/f16c_1.JPG>.
I think the
>> part number is 1920 6W "Regulator MOT" in the parts CD.
>>
>> The difference is that the black part of the shaft on my one is about
>> twice the length.
>>
>> The silver tip will rotate/move back and forth a tiny, tiny amount
>> (more like play than intentional rotation as it's so tiny). The black
>> bit on the shaft is a spring loaded collar over the inner shaft which
>> connects to the silver tip. This black collar rotates fine, although
>> with a little friction - more akin to the friction due to the end of
>> the spring than anything else.
>>
>> Other that that, nothing appears to move. Cannot rotate the tip, and
>> cannot work out how the collar could drive anything.
>>
>> My only conclusion is that this actually moves in and out, rather than
>> rotates. Hence the lack of rotation of the tip, and a spring loaded
>> collar around the shaft. Unfortunatately, this probably means its
>> worm driven, and thus cannot be moved manually (I certainly couldn't!)
>> - so difficult to be able to check whether it's working right.
>>
>> What would happen if I just wired it back into the car, but didn't
>> mount it? Should I then expect it to move? What about the fact that
>> there's a big hole where it used to be? I don't want to spend quite a
>> bit of money on it if this one is perfectly fine if this one could be
>> tested somehow.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> David
>
> Your ICV is completely different from mine which is shown here and it
> works differently.
>
http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n313/9fingersphotos/IdleControlValve.jpg.
>
>
> Find something about the same size as the actuator and use that to
> control the engine speed manually. If the stepper is working properly,
> then you should see it smoothly move from one extreme to the other
> depending of whether the idle speed that your are controlling manually
> is above or below the set speed.
> Make sure the engine is not cold when you do thus and that the aircon is
> off and that the throttle is fully closed. I.e. you must be simulating
> tickover conditions.
> Bob
Well, I tried this - and as I turned the ignition on (not to start) I
could see it move forward. As I started it, it moved out a bit further.
As I turned it off, it moved out a bit further! As I tried to re-fit
it, I noticed that it was now too long to fit into the hole! I thought
I would screw it in as much as I could, and then hope that it might go
backwards, and then I could tighten it. As I tried to do this, it all
came apart!
As I expected, the centre shaft was threaded with a threaded rotor to
the motor, driving it forwards and backwards (linear actuator?) and it
had driven itself off the thread. Impossible to screw back in, you have
to turn the motor to draw it back in. In the end I got it in as far as
I could, then held it against the engine block whilst the car was
started a couple of times, ignition turned on and off and eventually it
drew itself back into the motor.
I did the screws up and started it - started first time and ran smoothly
for a minute or two. Couple of small jumps up and down in the idle
speed, but constant at those speeds for a while. Just need to take it
for a test drive now.
The stepper motor shaft and tip was very heavily coated in oily gunk.
Couldn't see how it would cause a problem, but I did clean it well, and
when it came apart, I cleaned the thread of the centre shaft. Where it
fits inside, I couldn't work out what it pushed (couldn't feel anything
of any resistance when prodding in there) but what I did put in there
came out with a slight oily gunky coating (rather than just clean oil).
I stuffed a bit of kitchen towel in there to try cleaning it a bit.
Maybe I do need a new stepper motor - I don't know. Maybe it was just
really dirty - have to see if the problem returns - or whether it's
really fixed at all after a drive. Does make me wonder though, why it's
so dirty in there though. It should only be oil, air and fuel going
through there I'm guessing.
Thanks
D
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