Re: HELP: 93 Toyota Corolla vibration problem!

"Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote in message 
news:KbudnVBvC6f8jJfVnZ2dnUVZ_remnZ2d@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>> > Replace both front brake hoses, replace the brake fluid, and bleed
the
>>> > brakes.
>>
>>> That may not get the problem. Most tire places use a "static balance."
>>> system.
>>
>> < Which region(s) are you basing this data on?  Static balancing would
>> < yield a satisfactory result for most people most of the time, but
what
>> < reputable shop relies on this method anymore?
>>
>>    Static balance only examine ONE exis of wheel balance and trueness. 
>> Granted most GOOD shops use dynamic balance today. Ever been in a 
>> Wal-Mart tire shop? K-Mart?

> The Wal-Mart and K-Mart shops here in the Midwest all use dynamic 
> balancers.

    In many parts of the country they HAVE them but do not always USE
them.

>>> Okay for some purposes on newer cars, but this car is 15 years old.
>>> Wheels on the 93 Toyota were not exactly the strongest.

>> < What exactly is wrong with 93 Corolla wheels?  Do you even know what
>> < their dimensions are?  How many lugs and what's their spacing?  What
>> < changed about this in 1998?

>>    The standard steel wheel on the Corolla is not the most robust.
Which 
>> dimension are you talking about? The 15" rims with a 5 bolt pattern? Or

>> do you want to talk about the thickness of the steel in the wheel
itself? 
>> If so, at what point in the wheel? You know the bead is pretty thick,
but 
>> the center section of the wheel where it is welded to the base is
pretty 
>> thin. You know, I've never taken a mic to measure the spacing of the
lig 
>> holes. I'll have to get back to you on that. Also not being a Toyota 
>> expert in that precise a manner, I'd probably never have seen the
change 
>> from a 4 bolt pattern to the 5 bolt pattern.

>>> The wheel needs a dynamic balance and CLOSE inspection to see how true

>>> it is running. On the older cars potholes can tend to cause the wheels

>>> to become bent.

>> < Yes, newer cars avoid this entirely.

>>    No but wheel construction has been changed with more cars usily
alloy 
>> wheels today.

>>> I'd start there. Also the Corolla of the 90's was famous for bad wheel

>>> bearings.

>> < I'm curious, what specific problems were the "90's Corolla wheel
>> < bearings" famous for?  Would this include, say, a 1999 Corolla?

>>    The problems were in going SQUARE of not inspected and repacked
every 
>> 20,000 miles or so.

> The wheel bearings on the OP's Corolla are sealed and are not
repack-able.

    The WHEEL bearings on the spindle or the inner ones near the CV?

>>> We could assume it has disc brakes on the front wheels,
>>
>> < Why assume something (that is groin-poundingly obvious anyway)?
>> < Really?  "Disc brakes" on the front of a 90's rice burner?  Wow, what
>> < will they think of next?!

>>    Round tires. Smart ass.
>
>>> A close inspection of the spindle and the rotor are next. Not knowing 
>>> how many miles are on the
>>> car (generally we can assume over 100,000)

>> < Of course you can; you prophesied that his car has disc brakes!  Who
>> < would doubt your clairvoyance?

>>    Look clown - I know people with a 1989 Toyota with 40,000 miles on 
>> them. I also know some folks with 200,000 miles on a 2006 Corolla.

>>> at this age as a minimum - you have all sorts of culprits along the
way 
>>> as possibles. Maybe even
>>> combinations. That's without getting to any suspension parts. Look at 
>>> the
>>> most likely first.
>>
>>> 1. Bent wheel.
>>> 2. Bad wheel balance.
>>> 3. Bad bearing.
>>> 4. Bad rotor or worn spindle.
>>> 5. Suspension parts. (there are several high failure parts on the 
>>> corolla)
>>>
>>> The brake son the Corolla CAN be bad, but have been one of the more
>>> reliable things about Toyota. The only question here is how many times

>>> the
>>> rotors were turned and how accurately. MANY brake shops are butchers. 
>>> The
>>> cut rate places often have poorly trained KIDS doing the job. Nobody 
>>> should
>>> be surprised when they screw up. If too much is taken off a rotor when

>>> it is
>>> turned, they get sort of square after a while. As the too THINK rotor 
>>> heats
>>> up it tends to go our of round.
>
>> < After a shotgun rotor replacement the problem still 
>> exists.Hmmmmmmmmm...

>>    I was speaking of TURNING the rotor. There are only so many times
you 
>> can shave a rotor on the best of cars. Also lots depends on the
mechanic, 
>> they can shave too much off.  And that isn't uncommon.

>>> Look at the most likely first. Brake lines are down the list pretty
>>> far. Since it is only ONE side that seems to be causing the vibration
I
>>> would look for the most likely things first.
>>
>> < Only one side wheel seems to be getting hotter that the rest.  That
>> < doesn't mean the source of the vibration has been isolated to one
>> < side.
>>
>>    Yeah - and IF the problem is ONLY brake related (hanging calipers) 
>> don't you think the rotor on that side would likely be a pretty shade
of 
>> dark blue? AT least if not ridged?
>>
>>> You MAY wind up with a bad brake hose, but I'd look elsewhere first. 
>>> Besides you can't really tell
>>> about the hose even when you remove it. Not unless it is obviously
>>> collapsed. Hardening of the brake hose arteries is not impossible,
just
>>> unlikely.

>> < Let's copmpletely discount it then.

>>    I didn't say that, did I, smartass? I merely said START with the
MOST 
>> LIKELY - then those things have been eliminated you progress. HOWEVER -

>> in this case IF it is brakes - most likely it will show. What I have
seen 
>> on 15 year old cars is repairs done often on the cheap. Rotors turned 
>> when they shouldn't have been. Calipers kept on when they should have 
>> been replaced. One too many back yard repairs by owners. Usually young 
>> and inexperienced. Again the KEY here is whether or not the tires were 
>> mounted in an ACTUAL garage or the back yard. IF this were the brakes
as 
>> dogmaticly suggested here, IF the problem is a hanging caliper or a bad

>> brake hose, then it would have been hard to miss. IF the caliper is 
>> hanging with pressure not releasing, then the pads will be making 
>> constant contact with the rotors. BLUE AS HELL eventually. If it is
that 
>> the brake hose on the right has collapsed or closed (hardening of the 
>> artery) than you sure as hell will tell it driving the car, and I don't

>> mean a shaking. Don't you think if you have ONE SIDE where it is
working 
>> okay and the other side isn't that  when you hit the brakes it would
tend 
>> to PULL just a little bit? Maybe violently?? That's not what I read so 
>> far.
>>
>>> You can start to see the problem when you spin up the wheel on the
car.
>>> Most tire stores will CHECK the wheel balance OFF the car for free.
>>
>> < You have a vast knowledge of what *most* shops will do.

>>    Look JACKASS - I worked for both Firestone AND Goodyear. I also
owned 
>> my own parts store. Am I a mechanic? NO! But I know a LITTLE about 
>> cars.Enough to have raced in USAC and SCCA.

>>> Especially the store where you bought the tires.

>> < All above advice noted, now direct the OP to a competent mechanic.

>>    There are some things the owner can see. Like a BRIGHT DARK BLUE 
>> ROTOR. Don't you think a suspensioin part or CV joint is worth of 
>> consideration?

> I've seen lots of rotors warp that are not discolored.  The best way to 
> check the condition of the rotor is to measure lateral and radial
runout.


    No duhh, BUT with a chronic problem you would expect either severe 
discoloration OR grooves.  Again you use a MIC to see if the rotor is in 
spec.  Then go from there. I NEVER said a bad brake hose was impossible, I

just said that IT isn't where *I* would start. There are lots of FREE
things 
you can check with an eyeball.