On Mar 28, 1:10 am, "ND" <some...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> <one80...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>
>
news:1a8d640c-7c0d-4a80-af41-6a212611555f@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>
> > On Mar 26, 11:30 pm, "Brad and Karen" <BradandBro...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> >> "ND" <some...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>
> >>news:47eacb09$0$15195$607ed4bc@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> >> > <NoOptio...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
> >>
>news:5fb7c061-3577-4554-bef7-9c4ebdd34f35@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> >> On Mar 25, 12:29 pm, one80...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
> >> >>> On Mar 25, 10:24 am, one80...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
>
> >> >>> > I've got the bug and I've got the money and I'm getting me an
'04,
> >> >>> > '05
> >> >>> > or '06 GTO. I drove an '04 w/auto trans on Saturday and these
> >> >>> > things
> >> >>> > are nice. Even the '04, with the 350 hp LS1 5.7 liter, will
flatten
> >> >>> > you to the seatback in first and second.
>
> >> >>> > The differences between the '04 and the '05-'06, in addition to
the
> >> >>> > 400 hp LS2 6.0 liter, are better brakes and stronger half
shafts.
> >> >>> > But
> >> >>> > all years have a minimum of 350 hp, IRS, 4-wheel discs, the
best
> >> >>> > seats
> >> >>> > ever in any Chevy, a Blaupunkt (?!) 8-speaker stereo with
6-disc
> >> >>> > CD,
> >> >>> > and all the other typical luxury doodads. From what I can
tell, 6-
> >> >>> > speed Tremecs are about 4:1 as common as 4-spd autos.
>
> >> >>> > Particularly the '05, and maybe all years, have crap bu****ngs
on
> >> >>> > the
> >> >>> > Mac struts and on the various control arms, front and rear.
The
> >> >>> > Mac
> >> >>> > strut prob can cause extreme negative camber, causing
catastrophic
> >> >>> > rubbing damage to the inside edges of the front tires.
Aftermarket
> >> >>> > bu****ngs are a common fix.
>
> >> >>> > But the good news is the '04's are settling in around the high
to
> >> >>> > mid
> >> >>> > teens. The '05's are right around $20,000, and the '06's are
> >> >>> > $22,000
> >> >>> > to $25,000.
>
> >> >>> > One thing, though, it's hard to find a bone stock unit, and the
> >> >>> > sellers sometimes want to charge more for a modded one. Still,
for
> >> >>> > example, I could pick up an '05 with 22000 miles and a
Magnacharger
> >> >>> > roots blower, 514 rwhp/498 rwtq, 28 highway mpg, for sale here
in
> >> >>> > Cali
> >> >>> > for $24,000. That's a purty good deal! I would have to add
another
> >> >>> > $20,000 to the $30,000 I already have in my '65 Mustang fb to
get
> >> >>> > close to as nice a car, and I would still fall way short.
>
> >> >>> > 180 Out
>
> >> >>> Man, I need an "edit" function like in the web based boards.
Either
> >> >>> that or proofread prior to posting. So anyway, I meant to say
"best
> >> >>> seats ever in any GM product," and that the '04 is most likely to
> >> >>> have
> >> >>> bu****ng problems.
>
> >> >>> I also meant to mention that the GTO platform is the same one as
the
> >> >>> Opel Omega model that became the Cadillac Catera.
>
> >> >>> Also to add that the day when an old school classic was the cheap
way
> >> >>> to major high performance is well and truly dead.
>
> >> >> 180 Out,
>
> >> >> I agree. The modern performance car has become so great at so
many
> >> >> things -- top end, breaking, handling, acceleration, everyday
> >> >> driveability -- that the old stuff can't compete anymore.
>
> >> >> Patrick
>
> >> > Goto Dynacorn.com and get the best of both worlds. Old School looks
and
> >> > you do the rest.
>
> >> > Nick :)
>
> >> WTF Nick?
>
> >> I gotta say, Patrick is right. I just got a new MKZ Lincoln. I have
had
> >> lots of 5.0s and have a 1993 Cobra now. It's a fact, the Cobra would
be
> >> hard pressed to lose the Lincoln in anything but a straight line, and
> >> even
> >> then, as soon as brakes were needed, the Lincoln would catch right
up.
>
> >> Add to that warm, cushy seats, all the cool tech features, the quiet
> >> nature
> >> of the car, better fuel economy... the "old" stuff is just hopelessly
> >> outclassed. That said, I'll keep my Cobra cause I love it cause I
grew up
> >> with those cars, but if in a few years a Honda Accord goes by me like
I'm
> >> standing still, I won't be too surprised.
>
> >> Brad
>
> > The Dynacorn unibody is a great product if you want the '67-'68
> > classic vibe. But it costs about $14,000 plus ****pping iirc. That
> > price does not include a hood and front fenders. The unibodies are
> > not "ready for paint," either. A few dozen hours of blocking, and of
> > course panel fitting, are required to get them ready for paint. And a
> > modern OE-quality paint job will run $1000 for materials alone. So
> > you've already passed the price of a running, 20,000 mile or less 2004
> > GTO just to get your body shell prepped and painted.
>
> > Now you've got to add brakes, which can be made to match or exceed the
> > GTO's, but which will not have ABS. You'll need coilovers in both
> > front and rear to approach the GTO's handling characteristics. You
> > won't match them, however. Brakes, suspension. rims and tires, you're
> > into it for another $10,000.
>
> > Now you've blown past the price of a 5,000 mile 2006 Goat. And you
> > still don't have a 400 hp/400 lb-ft EFI engine or a six speed or 4-spd
> > auto trans, or an interior, or gauges, or a sound system, or AC. Or
> > any of the 400-500 trim pieces and fasteners you need to build a
> > complete car from scratch. (Actually you ought to get a '67-'68 parts
> > car for this project.) Add another $15,000 for all this stuff.
>
> > Also add 25% to the total, for the inevitable unknowns. And don't
> > include anything for the 1,500 hours of your evening, weekend, and
> > vacation free time that you've sunk into this car. Grand total, about
> > $50,000.-
>
> > When you're done you'll have one of the coolest '67-68 Stangs ever.
> > Depending on where you live, registration may be a problem, but by
> > hook or crook it can be done.
>
> > I still don't think, though, that the finished product will be
> > objectively as good a car as a $23,000 5,000 mile 2006 GTO.
>
> > 180 Out
>
> Soon both cars will be old, their performance lacking, and in the end
what
> are you left with? These cars are supposed to leave you in awe, you just
> have to decide if its the awesome looks of a '67-68 Mustang or the awful
> looks of a 2004 generation GTO???
>
> Food for thought. What are the '67-68 Mustangs currently going for
ground up
> rotisserie restorations from bare metal to foot on the pedal? I've seen
some
> Eleanor clones going for an easy $50k. The path you describe above is
the
> worse case expensive scenario as you even stated additional percentages
for
> the unknown. For the most part I don't know of any other kit car
investment
> were you would get nearly every penny back you put into it. If you
wanted to
> make a budget of $24k for either car you might be able to find a decent
> enough original Mustang and aside of buying all new you can find old
donors
> for the body and newer donors for the drive train, suspension, brakes,
> etc... I can imagine you could buy same year Mustang and do better too.
>
> Nick :)
Personally, I've got both (or soon will). Here's the sig I use in
http://forums.vintage-mustang.com
to describe my '65 Mustang:
[image]http://www.mustangmods.com/ims/u/1635/2567/144926.jpg[/image]
'65 289, T-5, MGW ****fter, hydraulic T.O.B., 3.55 8", lsd, SSBC pdb,
bell-crank booster, 235/45-17 Falkens on Raceline GT's, Shelby drop,
Maier UCA's, LCA's, frame connectors, shocktower brace, and 6-pt cage,
3-pt belts, 700 watt stereo, 12,900 song iPod, roller perches, Baer
Trackers, Fays2 Watts link, Slide-A-Links, 480-690 lb/in coils, 153 lb/
in leafs, KYB Gas-A-Justs. Next: 306, dual quads.
I've got about $30,000 in it. I know to the last penny because I've
kept a double entry ledger on it since Day One in November 2001. It's
worth about $15,000.
I've got a '70 Cougar standard coupe, too, 351C-2v, FMX, with a cam, 4-
bbl, headers, Sanden AC, and a bunch of the same Maier Racing stuff as
my '65. I've put about $10,000 in it since I got it in 1998. It's
worth about $5,000.
And now I'm going to pick up a late model GTO. I'll probably keep it
at least 10 years. So I don't really care what it's market value will
be during that time. I will not be surprised if it is starting to
appreciate in the market in 10 years.
I add a 25% wiggle room factor to my estimate of a ground up Dynacorn-
based build based on my experience and that of anyone you could pick
at random on the Vintage Mustang Forum. 25% is probably low. In fact
you can burn through the same amount of money in un-budgeted detours
in a hobby car as it would cost to buy a complete 20,000 mile 2004
GTO, i.e., mid teens. So if that GTO depreciated to zero dollars
during your owner****p -- which will never happen -- you would suffer
the same cash flow hit as the nickles and dimes of the typical old
car build-up will cost you.
Another factor with the oldies, that's always percolating at a low
level of anxiety, is that government will someday ban them. The
Legislature in my home state of California is always floating some
regulatory scheme or another, targeting the oldies. Most recently
some fool wanted to put every car 1963 model year (iirc) and newer
into the state's bi-annual Smog Check program. Apparently this fool
didn't even know that there were no emissions standards at all until
the '66 model year, so there would be nothing to test! But ignorance
will never stop the regulators. I only mention this because an
outright ban is a factor that a GTO will never face. Flip side, of
course, is that they are already regulated, which limits the amount of
mods you can do to them. But you can still get 500 hp with CARB-
exempted speed parts, and that's plenty.
If you've got no love for the GTO, the same analysis applies to the
'03-'04 SVT Cobras. These are just a blower pulley and chip away from
450-500 hp, and although they cost a little more than a GTO you can
get to 500 hp a lot cheaper with the Cobra.
180 Out
|
