Re: HELP: 93 Toyota Corolla vibration problem!

" krp" <krp2457k@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message 
news:0olOj.203$pn4.186@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> "Comboverfish" <comboverfish@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message 
>
news:499a9447-1c30-44e5-8f52-aaea84339bc7@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Apr 18, 2:48 am, " krp" <krp24...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
>
>> > Replace both front brake hoses, replace the brake fluid, and bleed
the
>> > brakes.
>
>> That may not get the problem. Most tire places use a "static balance."
>> system.
>
> < Which region(s) are you basing this data on?  Static balancing would
> < yield a satisfactory result for most people most of the time, but what
> < reputable shop relies on this method anymore?
>
>    Static balance only examine ONE exis of wheel balance and trueness. 
> Granted most GOOD shops use dynamic balance today. Ever been in a
Wal-Mart 
> tire shop? K-Mart?

The Wal-Mart and K-Mart shops here in the Midwest all use dynamic
balancers.

>
>> Okay for some purposes on newer cars, but this car is 15 years old.
>> Wheels on the 93 Toyota were not exactly the strongest.
>
> < What exactly is wrong with 93 Corolla wheels?  Do you even know what
> < their dimensions are?  How many lugs and what's their spacing?  What
> < changed about this in 1998?
>
>    The standard steel wheel on the Corolla is not the most robust. Which

> dimension are you talking about? The 15" rims with a 5 bolt pattern? Or
do 
> you want to talk about the thickness of the steel in the wheel itself?
If 
> so, at what point in the wheel? You know the bead is pretty thick, but
the 
> center section of the wheel where it is welded to the base is pretty
thin. 
> You know, I've never taken a mic to measure the spacing of the lig
holes. 
> I'll have to get back to you on that. Also not being a Toyota expert in 
> that precise a manner, I'd probably never have seen the change from a 4 
> bolt pattern to the 5 bolt pattern.
>
>> The wheel needs a dynamic balance and CLOSE inspection to see how true
it 
>> is running. On the
>> older cars potholes can tend to cause the wheels to become bent.
>
> < Yes, newer cars avoid this entirely.
>
>    No but wheel construction has been changed with more cars usily alloy

> wheels today.
>
>> I'd start there. Also the Corolla of the 90's was famous for bad wheel 
>> bearings.
>
> < I'm curious, what specific problems were the "90's Corolla wheel
> < bearings" famous for?  Would this include, say, a 1999 Corolla?
>
>    The problems were in going SQUARE of not inspected and repacked every

> 20,000 miles or so.

The wheel bearings on the OP's Corolla are sealed and are not repack-able.

>
>> We could assume it has disc brakes on the front wheels,
>
> < Why assume something (that is groin-poundingly obvious anyway)?
> < Really?  "Disc brakes" on the front of a 90's rice burner?  Wow, what
> < will they think of next?!
>
>    Round tires. Smart ass.
>
>> A close inspection of the spindle and the rotor are next. Not knowing
how 
>> many miles are on the
>> car (generally we can assume over 100,000)
>
> < Of course you can; you prophesied that his car has disc brakes!  Who
> < would doubt your clairvoyance?
>
>    Look clown - I know people with a 1989 Toyota with 40,000 miles on 
> them. I also know some folks with 200,000 miles on a 2006 Corolla.
>
>> at this age as a minimum - you have all sorts of culprits along the way

>> as possibles. Maybe even
>> combinations. That's without getting to any suspension parts. Look at
the
>> most likely first.
>
>> 1. Bent wheel.
>> 2. Bad wheel balance.
>> 3. Bad bearing.
>> 4. Bad rotor or worn spindle.
>> 5. Suspension parts. (there are several high failure parts on the 
>> corolla)
>>
>> The brake son the Corolla CAN be bad, but have been one of the more
>> reliable things about Toyota. The only question here is how many times 
>> the
>> rotors were turned and how accurately. MANY brake shops are butchers.
The
>> cut rate places often have poorly trained KIDS doing the job. Nobody 
>> should
>> be surprised when they screw up. If too much is taken off a rotor when
it 
>> is
>> turned, they get sort of square after a while. As the too THINK rotor 
>> heats
>> up it tends to go our of round.
>
> < After a shotgun rotor replacement the problem still
exists.Hmmmmmmmmm...
>
>    I was speaking of TURNING the rotor. There are only so many times you

> can shave a rotor on the best of cars. Also lots depends on the
mechanic, 
> they can shave too much off.  And that isn't uncommon.
>
>> Look at the most likely first. Brake lines are down the list pretty
>> far. Since it is only ONE side that seems to be causing the vibration I
>> would look for the most likely things first.
>
> < Only one side wheel seems to be getting hotter that the rest.  That
> < doesn't mean the source of the vibration has been isolated to one
> < side.
>
>    Yeah - and IF the problem is ONLY brake related (hanging calipers) 
> don't you think the rotor on that side would likely be a pretty shade of

> dark blue? AT least if not ridged?
>
>> You MAY wind up with a bad brake hose, but I'd look elsewhere first. 
>> Besides you can't really tell
>> about the hose even when you remove it. Not unless it is obviously
>> collapsed. Hardening of the brake hose arteries is not impossible, just
>> unlikely.
>
> < Let's copmpletely discount it then.
>
>    I didn't say that, did I, smartass? I merely said START with the MOST

> LIKELY - then those things have been eliminated you progress. HOWEVER -
in 
> this case IF it is brakes - most likely it will show. What I have seen
on 
> 15 year old cars is repairs done often on the cheap. Rotors turned when 
> they shouldn't have been. Calipers kept on when they should have been 
> replaced. One too many back yard repairs by owners. Usually young and 
> inexperienced. Again the KEY here is whether or not the tires were
mounted 
> in an ACTUAL garage or the back yard. IF this were the brakes as 
> dogmaticly suggested here, IF the problem is a hanging caliper or a bad 
> brake hose, then it would have been hard to miss. IF the caliper is 
> hanging with pressure not releasing, then the pads will be making
constant 
> contact with the rotors. BLUE AS HELL eventually. If it is that the
brake 
> hose on the right has collapsed or closed (hardening of the artery) than

> you sure as hell will tell it driving the car, and I don't mean a
shaking. 
> Don't you think if you have ONE SIDE where it is working okay and the 
> other side isn't that  when you hit the brakes it would tend to PULL
just 
> a little bit? Maybe violently?? That's not what I read so far.
>
>> You can start to see the problem when you spin up the wheel on the car.
>> Most tire stores will CHECK the wheel balance OFF the car for free.
>
> < You have a vast knowledge of what *most* shops will do.
>
>    Look JACKASS - I worked for both Firestone AND Goodyear. I also owned

> my own parts store. Am I a mechanic? NO! But I know a LITTLE about 
> cars.Enough to have raced in USAC and SCCA.
>
>> Especially the store where you bought the tires.
>
> < All above advice noted, now direct the OP to a competent mechanic.
>
>    There are some things the owner can see. Like a BRIGHT DARK BLUE
ROTOR. 
> Don't you think a suspensioin part or CV joint is worth of
consideration?
>

I've seen lots of rotors warp that are not discolored.  The best way to 
check the condition of the rotor is to measure lateral and radial runout.
-- 

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)