Re: Welcome to the Big Time, Bourdais

"." <.@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message news:clVDj.80949$Ft5.72234@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> "AC" <xxxx@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
> news:wuTDj.22955$kN5.22247@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>
>> "." <.@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
> news:hEPDj.32260$yk5.26216@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> > "Mike P" <privacy@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>> > news:649dmdF2b18jeU1@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> >> <another big snip
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >> I suspect you will counter that by saying that Seabass never beat
>> > anyone
>> >> >> good in Champcar... which is just the same as AGR in the IRL
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Mike P
>> >> >
>> >> > Trying to compare CARTs all time winningest driver, Ayrton
>> >> > Senna's teammate, plus the IRL's winningest team owner,
>> >> > two time Indy 500 and 3 time season champions and all in
>> >> > just five short years with arguably one of the most famous
>> >> > names in the world, to a nobody competing against nameless
>> >> > competition, virtually no accomplishments or respect driving
>> >> > for a winless perennial bottom dwelling team?!?!?! I think
>> >> > Paul (Marlon Brando) in "Ultimo Tango a Parigi" ("Last
>> >> > Tango in Paris") might have said it best when he uttered
>> >> > the infamous words: "What a steaming pile of horse****!".
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Get your facts straight, Michael NEVER won the Indy 500 as a driver.
>> >
>> > More canard, of course I neither said nor implied that he
>> > had won it as a driver, as I've in fact stated before:
>> >
>> > "Michael Andretti has now won the Indy 500 twice, in
>> > the same manner that Roger Penske is said to have
>> > won it more than a dozern times, despite the fact that
>> > the latter never once led a single lap or even so much
>> > as participated in it as a driver ..."
>> >
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.autos.s****t.cart/msg/b56ac8bfb714e3ad
>> >
>> >> I quote.....  "to a nobody competing against nameless
competition"...
> you
>> >> yourself, Mr Dot, admitted the IRL was a pile of ****e before 2003.
So
> in
>> >> fact competing against nobodies is exactly what AGR have been doing
>> >>
>> >> You're funny, it's ace
>> >>
>> >> Mike P
>> >
>> > But there were years in which the CART/CCWS/OWRS/
>> > ChumpCar drivers did in fact compete in the IRL Indy 500.
>> > But of course doofus AGR never competed, or existed, in
>> > the IRL prior to 2003. What a complete and utter moron.
>> >
>>
>> Of course Micheal Andretti was a 3rd rate driver who fundamentally
failed
> in
>> the elite F1 series, but to call him an utter moron is a bit much.
>>
>> AC
>
> Well what do you want? He was the all time winningest
> driver from a series that losers the likes of Mario Andretti,
> Emerson Fittipaldi, Nigel Mansell, Bobby Rahal, AJ Foyt,
> Rick Mears, Gordon Johncock, Johnny Rutherford, Juan
> Pablo Montoya, the Unsers and untold numbers of other
> total amateurs and complete failures participated in.
>
> Surely mere mortals, unlike yourself, can't reasonably be
> expected to bask in and savor the sheer fame, fortune and
> unearthly accomplishment that gods like you regularly enjoy.
>
>

THINK before you type. You seem so hyped up that you just hit the keyboard

with out thinking. I have posted here once before and, oh, come
on.........

Right, to be horribly fair, I didn't think Andretti got a fair crack at
F1. 
He was far better than his F1 effort showed.

My Indy/Cart/Andretti history:
Like many Brits, I only noticed the Indy/Cart thing when Mansell came over

and took Andretti's seat at Newman Hass. I also thought it rather groovy 
that this "yank" driver had been signed by Mclaren. So, cool all round, 
right? The Brit F1 driver goes to the US to mess things up and the yanks 
reply in kind by sending their man to F1. Very cool :)

So, Mansell goes and wins the Cart series and Andretti failed miserably
and 
goes back to the US. Then, when I saw Andretti in that series, it was
clear 
to me that he was a pretty good driver. I don't remember details, but I do

remember he was pretty good, and fun to watch. Andretti looked piss stupid

in F1, yet here he was driving like a demon in the US. So, something was
not 
right.

Later on I read this article talking about MA's F1 experience. Amongst
other 
things, it was said that Mario interfered with his sons time there. IIRC
the 
biggest issue was that he 'advised' Michael against moving to the UK,
where 
Mclaren are based. Amongst other things, the biggest issue was that
Michael 
got far less testing and never 'bonded' with the team. There was a whole 
string of other things, but I really cant remember. None the less, it
seemed 
MA had a pretty rough time, but a lot of it was either his or his fathers 
doing.

The other thing I read in that article, was that Mansell benefited from a 
well sorted Newman Hass car. The car that Andretti had spent the previous 
season setting up.

So, while I could never see MA as a "great" driver, in any sense of the 
word, I don't think he was a steaming pile of ****e. He did achieve a lot
in 
the US racing series. But he never cut it at the highest level, which is a

pity. Had he been able to take F1 seriously he may well have do well there

too.

I can well understand why Americans may well, quite rightly, wor****p MA,
but 
in a worldwide context, he doesn't amount to much. And that's a darn shame

because IMHO he never gave himself a proper chance, and I reckon he had
the 
talent to do a hell of a lot better in F1.

I mean, JV won a F1 WDC for gods sake. Surely MA could have?

AC