Re: Welcome to the Big Time, Bourdais

"AC" <xxxx@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message 
news:Ym_Dj.13683$5i5.8052@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> "." <.@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message 
> news:clVDj.80949$Ft5.72234@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> "AC" <xxxx@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>> news:wuTDj.22955$kN5.22247@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>
>>> "." <.@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>> news:hEPDj.32260$yk5.26216@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>> > "Mike P" <privacy@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>>> > news:649dmdF2b18jeU1@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>> >> <another big snip
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> >> I suspect you will counter that by saying that Seabass never
beat
>>> > anyone
>>> >> >> good in Champcar... which is just the same as AGR in the IRL
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Mike P
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Trying to compare CARTs all time winningest driver, Ayrton
>>> >> > Senna's teammate, plus the IRL's winningest team owner,
>>> >> > two time Indy 500 and 3 time season champions and all in
>>> >> > just five short years with arguably one of the most famous
>>> >> > names in the world, to a nobody competing against nameless
>>> >> > competition, virtually no accomplishments or respect driving
>>> >> > for a winless perennial bottom dwelling team?!?!?! I think
>>> >> > Paul (Marlon Brando) in "Ultimo Tango a Parigi" ("Last
>>> >> > Tango in Paris") might have said it best when he uttered
>>> >> > the infamous words: "What a steaming pile of horse****!".
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Get your facts straight, Michael NEVER won the Indy 500 as a
driver.
>>> >
>>> > More canard, of course I neither said nor implied that he
>>> > had won it as a driver, as I've in fact stated before:
>>> >
>>> > "Michael Andretti has now won the Indy 500 twice, in
>>> > the same manner that Roger Penske is said to have
>>> > won it more than a dozern times, despite the fact that
>>> > the latter never once led a single lap or even so much
>>> > as participated in it as a driver ..."
>>> >
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.autos.s****t.cart/msg/b56ac8bfb714e3ad
>>> >
>>> >> I quote.....  "to a nobody competing against nameless
competition"...
>> you
>>> >> yourself, Mr Dot, admitted the IRL was a pile of ****e before 2003.

>>> >> So
>> in
>>> >> fact competing against nobodies is exactly what AGR have been doing
>>> >>
>>> >> You're funny, it's ace
>>> >>
>>> >> Mike P
>>> >
>>> > But there were years in which the CART/CCWS/OWRS/
>>> > ChumpCar drivers did in fact compete in the IRL Indy 500.
>>> > But of course doofus AGR never competed, or existed, in
>>> > the IRL prior to 2003. What a complete and utter moron.
>>> >
>>>
>>> Of course Micheal Andretti was a 3rd rate driver who fundamentally 
>>> failed
>> in
>>> the elite F1 series, but to call him an utter moron is a bit much.
>>>
>>> AC
>>
>> Well what do you want? He was the all time winningest
>> driver from a series that losers the likes of Mario Andretti,
>> Emerson Fittipaldi, Nigel Mansell, Bobby Rahal, AJ Foyt,
>> Rick Mears, Gordon Johncock, Johnny Rutherford, Juan
>> Pablo Montoya, the Unsers and untold numbers of other
>> total amateurs and complete failures participated in.
>>
>> Surely mere mortals, unlike yourself, can't reasonably be
>> expected to bask in and savor the sheer fame, fortune and
>> unearthly accomplishment that gods like you regularly enjoy.
>>
>>
>
> THINK before you type. You seem so hyped up that you just hit the
keyboard 
> with out thinking. I have posted here once before and, oh, come 
> on.........
>
> Right, to be horribly fair, I didn't think Andretti got a fair crack at 
> F1. He was far better than his F1 effort showed.
>
> My Indy/Cart/Andretti history:
> Like many Brits, I only noticed the Indy/Cart thing when Mansell came
over 
> and took Andretti's seat at Newman Hass. I also thought it rather groovy

> that this "yank" driver had been signed by Mclaren. So, cool all round, 
> right? The Brit F1 driver goes to the US to mess things up and the yanks

> reply in kind by sending their man to F1. Very cool :)
>
> So, Mansell goes and wins the Cart series and Andretti failed miserably 
> and goes back to the US. Then, when I saw Andretti in that series, it
was 
> clear to me that he was a pretty good driver. I don't remember details, 
> but I do remember he was pretty good, and fun to watch. Andretti looked 
> piss stupid in F1, yet here he was driving like a demon in the US. So, 
> something was not right.
>
> Later on I read this article talking about MA's F1 experience. Amongst 
> other things, it was said that Mario interfered with his sons time
there. 
> IIRC the biggest issue was that he 'advised' Michael against moving to
the 
> UK, where Mclaren are based. Amongst other things, the biggest issue was

> that Michael got far less testing and never 'bonded' with the team.
There 
> was a whole string of other things, but I really cant remember. None the

> less, it seemed MA had a pretty rough time, but a lot of it was either
his 
> or his fathers doing.
>
> The other thing I read in that article, was that Mansell benefited from
a 
> well sorted Newman Hass car. The car that Andretti had spent the
previous 
> season setting up.
>
> So, while I could never see MA as a "great" driver, in any sense of the 
> word, I don't think he was a steaming pile of ****e. He did achieve a
lot 
> in the US racing series. But he never cut it at the highest level, which

> is a pity. Had he been able to take F1 seriously he may well have do
well 
> there too.
>
> I can well understand why Americans may well, quite rightly, wor****p MA,

> but in a worldwide context, he doesn't amount to much. And that's a darn

> shame because IMHO he never gave himself a proper chance, and I reckon
he 
> had the talent to do a hell of a lot better in F1.
>
> I mean, JV won a F1 WDC for gods sake. Surely MA could have?
>
> AC

I started watching Indy/Cart racing at the same time as you, and for the 
same reasons. I actually agree with just about every point you make. I
like 
to add to that, that I think if he'd appeared more committed, ie moved to 
the UK,  Michael would have been given a lot more testing and done a lot 
better.

I'm just winding up the dot, sorry.. :-)

Mike P